Sunday, 22 April 2007

Homosexual subculture wants to be infected with HIV!

A Melbourne man who fantasised about contracting HIV before actually being infected by the virus has spoken of a gay subculture in which infection is seen as "desirable".

The 20-year-old man, who does not want to be named, told Fairfax newspapers both complacency about the virus and the wish to have unprotected sex with an HIV-positive man he was in love with led him to become infected.

"I wasn't actively seeking it, but maybe there were parts of me, dark corners, that wanted it, that were thinking, 'Let's just do it and get it over and done with and then it won't be an issue'," he said.

The young professional is the first to speak out about "bug chasing", a behaviour in the gay community in which men seek to become infected with HIV.

The phenomenon was highlighted at the recent committal hearing for Melbourne man Michael Neal.

Mr Neal was accused of deliberately spreading the virus.

A HIV-positive man said in court that "bug chasing" was "a big thing out there" and that he had been pursued on the internet by a man wanting the bug.

"I just kept reminding him that it was not glamorous," a witness told the court.

Dawn Wilcock, of Positive Women Victoria, a support group for HIV-positive women, said the reaction showed a need for Melbourne's gay community leaders to stop dismissing claims of the subculture as an urban myth.

"There's a lot of defensive and protective behaviour going on that is not addressing the potential repercussions of this," Ms Wilcock said.

"It's a real problem. We know that 75 per cent of Victorian women infected with HIV are contracting the virus from long-term male partners, so the health campaigns targeting gay men need to target others in the community who would never publicly identify themselves as being gay too."

The HIV-positive man said some men going to group-sex parties with HIV-positive men might want to "join the club" and have unprotected sex more freely.

"I have had an extremely intoxicated person claim that he wanted it once," he said. "I fobbed him off and he never came asking for it again."

source

Rolling Stone article that sheds major light on how sick minded this group really is

Short video on bug chasing

18 comments:

The Truth said...

There's also subcultures of heterosexuals that love being urinated on and defecated on to become sexually aroused.

There's a subculture of people that love wearing furry teddy bear suits

there's a subculture that gets of on people with prosthetic limbs.


It takes all types to populate a planet. To use a subculture to describe the whole is just a poor analogy.

Jemdude said...

Where did I say that I'm using a subculture to describe the whole? I did not say that the entire homosexual community is into this; just a subculture of it. In fact, I didn't say anything. I just posted the article.

You seem to think that reporting articles of bad things in the homosexual community is some kind of attack. I'm not attacking, but pointing out a problem within the homosexual community. You don't solve the problem by criticizing the person who reported it, but to deal with the people that caused the article to be written in the first place. In other words, deal with the subculture.

So how do you think this subculture should be dealt with?

Alex said...

So how do you think this subculture should be dealt with?

There are already several strategies being implemented to deal with this subculture:

1. Advertising. In any gay magazine, TV network, or social space, you'll see plenty of ads relating the true hardship of living with HIV, with a fair amount of emphasis on the expense, inconvenience, and frequent failure of drug regimens.

2. Same-sex marriage. Legalizing gay marriage and encouraging gays to get married promotes monogamy and long-term stability in gay relationships. It also provides important role models for gay youth - showing them that homosexuality is indeed compatible with a life of quiet domesticity. Those who fight against same-sex marriage, who tell gay people that they can't have that quiet suburban life with two kids, that they must live on the margins of society, are actually encouraging the HIV-infection subculture.

3. Gay pride in general. Many people, particularly communities of faith, have rejected gay people, telling them that they are inherently immoral. Is it at all surprising that some people react to this rejection by giving up moral behavior altogether? Part of the message of gay pride is telling gay people that they are not intrinsically worthless - that their lives are worth preserving and that they deserve happiness, that they are children of the Lord whose sexuality is a gift from God. Again, those who reject gay people, who tell them that a monogamous same-sex relationship is just as sinful and evil as a continuous parade of anonymous unsafe partners, are helping the HIV-catching subculture to persist.

I'll ask you - if you're concerned about this subculture, are you willing to support those gay individuals who would seek stable, life-long, monogamous same-sex marriages? To make same-sex marriage, rather than gay promiscuity, the norm for gay people? Are you willing to do your part to solve this problem?

Jemdude said...

Alex, as far as the suggestions you mentioned, I only agree with one of them.

The advertising of the realities of being infected with HIV/AIDS is a very good one. People need to be reminded that it is still something that is best avoided and that there is nothing glamorous about being infected.

However, I do not agree with your other two suggestions. They give the false notion that the problem lies with society's hostile attitude towards homosexuality which is not the case. According to the article, the reason why this subculture exists is because they feel that they will eventually get infected anyway, so they deliberately try to get infected. They also feel that getting infected means that they can engage in unprotected sex with others who are also infected since protection is meaningless if the other people he's having sex with are also infected. Christians have nothing to do with this.

As far as what I can do, I am doing just that. I have posted this article in my blog to warn people about the existence of this subculture. I do believe that swingers/group sex parties should be against the law, and I agree that anyone knowingly infecting other people should be put in jail.

The Truth said...

So to summarize, No, you won't help remove the subculture by promoting a healther culture of homosexuality - marriage, suburbs etc, but just warn more people of the ills and immorality of Homosexuality. That is still part of the problem.

and showing these articles are an attack on the culture, because you show it as representing the Gay community. It does not. I will believe you are not attacking a homosexual lifestyle when I see you post articles of those who are good role models to the Gay Community.

Alex said...

However, I do not agree with your other two suggestions. They give the false notion that the problem lies with society's hostile attitude towards homosexuality which is not the case.

How can you say this, given what you've wrote in your articles about young marriage? You've written that a young couple needs support from their community and their church to build a stable, serious, monogamous relationship. Why are gay people any less in need of such support? If you object to homosexual promiscuity, then how can you possibly object to efforts to encourage same-sex monogamy and life-long partnership?

Alex said...

A follow-up: here is what you yourself wrote about young marriage, paraphrased slightly to apply to gay people:

Conservative minded people support abstinence. There is nothing wrong with abstinence. However, when you ask these people when gay youth are deemed ready for marriage, they will usually say never. I believe this is too long of a time period for many people to wait. If you tell a bunch of teenagers that sex outside of marriage is wrong, and at the same time, say that they won't ever be ready for marriage, do you really think they will be encouraged to wait? Some will, but a lot of them will not. They will just end up engaging in premarital sex thinking to themselves, "Well I am not going to ever be ready for marriage, so I might as well have some sex now in the meantime".

This reasoning - your own exact reasoning - is how Christian rejection of homosexuals has encouraged homosexual promiscuity; and from that encouraged fatalism, despair, and this bug-chasing subculture.

Jemdude said...

So to summarize, No, you won't help remove the subculture by promoting a healther culture of homosexuality - marriage, suburbs etc, but just warn more people of the ills and immorality of Homosexuality. That is still part of the problem.

As I said before, Christians have nothing to do with this subculture. There is little I can do to promote "healthier culture of homosexuality" when this subculture wants to engage in the practices that they engage in.

and showing these articles are an attack on the culture, because you show it as representing the Gay community. It does not. I will believe you are not attacking a homosexual lifestyle when I see you post articles of those who are good role models to the Gay Community.

What part of the word "subculture" do you not understand?

Jemdude said...

Alex said:

How can you say this, given what you've wrote in your articles about young marriage? You've written that a young couple needs support from their community and their church to build a stable, serious, monogamous relationship. Why are gay people any less in need of such support? If you object to homosexual promiscuity, then how can you possibly object to efforts to encourage same-sex monogamy and life-long partnership?


A follow-up: here is what you yourself wrote about young marriage, paraphrased slightly to apply to gay people:

Conservative minded people support abstinence. There is nothing wrong with abstinence. However, when you ask these people when gay youth are deemed ready for marriage, they will usually say never. I believe this is too long of a time period for many people to wait. If you tell a bunch of teenagers that sex outside of marriage is wrong, and at the same time, say that they won't ever be ready for marriage, do you really think they will be encouraged to wait? Some will, but a lot of them will not. They will just end up engaging in premarital sex thinking to themselves, "Well I am not going to ever be ready for marriage, so I might as well have some sex now in the meantime".

This reasoning - your own exact reasoning - is how Christian rejection of homosexuals has encouraged homosexual promiscuity; and from that encouraged fatalism, despair, and this bug-chasing subculture.


Again, you make the mistake that Christians are to blame for the existence of this subculture, but we are not. This is an internal problem within the homosexual community. (My arguments in favor of young marriages do not apply to homosexuals because unlike them, there is nothing immoral about young marriages. But this is going off topic.) You are also arguing with the wrong person. I would suggest that you find a blog run by a "bug chaser" or a "gift giver" and argue with him.

The truth is, everybody is responsible for their own actions. The teens or adults who engage in premarital sex because they choose to do so. Same with the homosexual subculture who choose to engage in promiscuous sexual practices. They choose to do so out of their own free will.

Here is another article that may shed more light on this homosexual subculture. You will see that they are too sick minded to be reasoned with:
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5939950/bug_chasers

Never Give Up said...

Alex’s point 2.
This point makes absolutely no logical sense. If you won't let me do something which is unhealthy, shortens my life expectancy, drains our social health care, then I will kill myself and it's all your fault!

Regarding Alex's point 3... there is a difference between the logical assessment that an unhealthy lifestyle which promotes disease is wrong and saying a person is wrong. It's time to get over playing victim games to make others feel guilty. “POOR ME”, doesn't cut it as a defence for stupidity.

In a country which, for now, allows freedom of religion, my God has said homosexuality is a wrong use of human sexuality, therefore, I am entitled to believe that. This does not make me the source of someone else's sick desire to become ill.

Jemdude, or any other human, cannot solve the problem of sin in someone else's life. That's up to each individual to repent of for themselves.

Please visit the website of Stephen Bennett

http://www.sbministries.org/

That's help for an unhealthy lifestyle which is worth something.

Alex said...

Again, you make the mistake that Christians are to blame for the existence of this subculture, but we are not. This is an internal problem within the homosexual community.

Why do you regard "the homosexual community" as foreign to you? Are we not all human beings and children of the Lord? Are not many homosexuals Christians themselves? As you say, everyone is responsible for their own actions. Every Christian is responsible every time he rejects a gay person from their own community. Every Christian who fights against gay marriage is responsible for the damage wrought by denying gay people the support, stability, and safety of life-long monogamous relationships. Why do you run from your own responsibility?

And, speaking of subcultures, there is a subculture of Christians that demeans and terrorizes gay people; a subculture that pickets the funerals of gay people with signs bearing terrible profanities; a subculture that scrawls graffiti on the buses of gay Christian groups; a subculture that promotes numerically impossible "research" from discredited researches and passes it of as truth. What have you as a Christian done to deal with this internal subculture?

Even that Rolling Stone article mentions exactly what I was talking about: "Dr. Bob Cabaj [...] says: 'For kids who have had a really hard time fitting in or being accepted, this becomes like a fraternity.'"

Don't those who have rejected these people and made them the cast-offs of society - cast-offs who would seek such a horrible fraternity - bear some responsibility for their own actions? You're right that these people are sick-minded, but it began with people telling them that they are worthless and evil. If you tell people that often enough, some of them will actually believe you and act in ways that demonstrate their feelings of worthlessness.

Michael MacKay said...

Alex said...
"There is nothing wrong with abstinence. However, when you ask these people when gay youth are deemed ready for marriage,"

Jemdude never said "gay youth" you're rewriting what he said so it fits with what you're trying to say.

Another thing is that Christians don't say homosexuals are worthless
again you're putting words in people's mouths , as a Christian I do not believe homosexuals are worthless , but rather people living in a sinful lifestyle who need help.

Homosexuality greatly reduces life expectancy whether the homosexual is a bug chaser or not.How can you justify people killing themselves like this?

Christian charities raise money to help people with AIDS , christians warn homosexuals about the dangers of homosexuality and encourage them to seek help so they can escape the disease ridden lifestyle whereas people like yourself end up killing homosexuals by teLling them nothings wrong with homosexuality and to celebrate it.So really who does the most harm to homosexuals?

Alex said...

Never give up said: If you won't let me do something which is unhealthy, shortens my life expectancy,

and Michael McKay said: Homosexuality greatly reduces life expectancy whether the homosexual is a bug chaser or not.

Both of you are presumably referring to the Paul Cameron article that Jemdude posted a while ago. I'll reiterate that Cameron is a shoddy and deceitful researcher. Even Exodus International (a group dedicated to reversing homosexual attractions) has distanced themselves from him. Any links to his research at the Exodus site have been replaced by the statement: This article has been removed due to the inaccuracies surrounding the research of Paul Cameron. By spreading Cameron's lies that homosexuality is inherently "disease-ridden" even in the absence of promiscuity, you are indeed encouraging the fatalism that I've been talking about all through this thread (Jemdude even described this fatalism: "because they feel that they will eventually get infected anyway, so they deliberately try to get infected").

There is just no evidence that a homosexual living a non-promiscuous life has any more health issues than a heterosexual does. It's pretty obvious that increasing one's exposure to STDs does indeed harm one's life expectancy, which is why it is so important to do everything possible to discourage this promiscuity, up to and including encouraging practicing homosexuals to form life-long, monogamous marriages.

Jemdude asked how this subculture should be dealt with, and I responded. I'd ask all of you to please not oppose our fight against promiscuity and please do not fight against the tools we use, including gay marriage and gay pride. You may not agree, but you should allow those within the gay community to use these tools without outlawing them, just as the law allows Jews and Muslims to maintain their own houses of worship (and even get married!) even though you believe that they are mistaken and sinful in denying the divinity of Christ.

Jemdude said...

Alex, this isn't about homosexuals living a non-promiscuous lifestyle. These are people who are deliberately infecting themselves. They are doing it within the gay community in gay bars and other hangouts that this subculture is at. What do you expect Christians to do? Go to those places and preach to them? We wouldn't be wanted there.

Another thing is that this subculture wants to be infected. They do not want to live a monogamous lifestyle. They want to engage in wild sex parties and promiscuity because to them, it feels good and they don't want to give it up.

Alex said...

What do you expect Christians to do?

I expect Christians to stop describing homosexuals as "disease ridden", thus encouraging the fatalism in this subculture ("I'm going to get infected anyway"). I expect Christians to stop spreading the lies of Paul Cameron, thus encouraging the fatalism in this subculture. I expect Christians to, if not embrace, then at least not try to hinder the efforts of those of us who are trying to support gay monogamy and stop trying to make gay marriage illegal.

Jemdude said...

Alex, there is something you need to see:

Do homosexuals have more mental health problems as well?

Yes. Various research studies have found that homosexuals have higher rates of:

· Alcohol abuse

· Drug abuse

· Nicotine dependence

· Depression

· Suicide

Isn't it possible that these problems result from society's "discrimination" against homosexuals?

This is the argument usually put forward by pro-homosexual activists. However, there is a simple way to test this hypothesis. If "discrimination" were the cause of homosexuals' mental health problems, then one would expect those problems to be much less common in cities or countries, like San Francisco or the Netherlands, where homosexuality has achieved the highest levels of acceptance.

In fact, the opposite is the case. In places where homosexuality is widely accepted, the physical and mental health problems of homosexuals are greater, not less. This suggests that the real problem lies in the homosexual lifestyle itself, not in society's response to it. In fact, it suggests that increasing the level of social support for homosexual behavior (by, for instance, allowing same-sex couple to "marry") would only increase these problems, not reduce them.


http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IF03H01&f=PG03I03

Now, I didn't bring this up to debate about the homosexual community in general, but only because you keep blaming Christians for the homosexual subculture's behavior.

Quite trying to turn this into a blame game towards Christians. The homosexual subculture is into the sexual practices they are into because that is the lifestyle they have chosen to live.

Why are you defending this subculture? They are the ones doing the harm in the general homosexual community.

Jemdude said...

Here is a short video on bug chasers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrmccJkfApg

Alex said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.